Games You Wish You Could Love

That's One...There is an old joke that goes like this:

Two men are riding along in a horse and carriage. After a while the horse stops. The man driving the carriage gets out, walks around the front where the horse is.  He looks the horse right in the eye and says, “That’s one.”  With that the two men go riding along until eventually the horse stops again.  The driver gets out, walks around front, shakes a finger at the horse and says, “That’s two”. Eventually the horse stops a third time. With that the driver gets out, stomps around to the front of the carriage and shoots the horse dead.  With that the passenger says “Are you insane? What did you do that for?”  The driver looks at the passenger and simply says…

“That’s one.”

Note: No actually horses were harmed in the telling of this joke.

The point to all this is that there are some games that I want to love playing, but just can’t. Sometimes these games are such that I really do enjoy playing them but there is some factor that make me feel about as welcome as  “skin head” at a bar mitzvah.

Eve online is one of those games.

Despite what some of our learned readers and listeners may insist, pvp in Eve Online is not consensual. Far from it in fact. It was not that long ago I wrote an article for Virgin Worlds called “consenting adults and other Eve Online PvP Myths.”  Now don’t mistake my disappointment for disapproval.  In fact where CCP is concerned it is quite the reverse in my opinion – the devs at CCP are (at least as far as game mechanics are concerned) by far one of the best development teams out there.

The big “But” (no not mine) is this: if there is any game out there in the internet global village that is the equivalent of the lawless wild west, Eve Online is it.  There is very little that the devs at CCP consider against the rules.  Isk selling? Sure, as long as the source is CCP.  Players who scam other players out of months or real time hard work? It’s all part of the game. I can put up with all that, but for me the whole “That’s three” was non-consensual pvp.  And now, it seems, the dung is starting to hit the proverbial fan if only in some small way. Here is a quote from one of my regular reads, The Ancient Gaming Noob (see below). You can read the full article here:

“Gangs of suicide gankers in destroyers have been roving the asteroid belts hunting Hulks for sport.  We just can’t seem to get away from suicide gankers in EVE, no matter  what anybody says.  Some people just find it too much fun.” – The Ancient Gaming Noob 

And here, (in its most recent incarnation) is the source of the angst of which the Ancient Gaming Noob wrote.

Now for those of you who aren’t “in the know” where Eve Online is concerned, a Hulk is what is called a “Tech 2″ ship.  It involves a great deal of time and money to buy or make or both – millions, upon millions of isk. The hitch is this – although you may have heard that ships can be insured in Eve Online, the truth of the matter is that a Tech 2 ship can only be insured for a tiny small fraction of what it costs, including the fittings (which can’t be insured at all). 

Everyone who has ever played Eve Online will tell you, “Don’t fly what you can’t afford to lose.” The problem is, you should at least be safe in high sector space.  There should be some part of the game where you can pve without being killed by players who live off the misery of others. 

There was a time when CCP sais they would take action on this. Here is a statement from an article over at Massively.com from August 2008 (Thanks Michael for the correction):

 ”CCP Fear states: ‘We have been looking at suicide ganking and overall security standing issues, and how these features affect the general landscape of EVE. We are not happy with the current ease of suicide ganking and the relative ‘no hassle’ it has become. In many cases, unsuspecting victims have no chance to escape, nor any help from CONCORD. We want to change this.’” – via Massively.

In the end, not much has changed between when CCP Fear made the statement and this day.  Even if they had, those who are determined enough will find a way around said changes.  As a Hulk pilot myself (at least until about a week ago) between corporate war declarations and threat of suicide ganks perhaps I had found my Hulk a virtual prisoners in space dock once too often.

There will always be players like the imbeciles who organize suicide gankings. Why do they do it? Certainly not for the money, as blowing up someone else’s much more expensive ship, knowing you will lose yours to the “in game police” (called concord) mere moments later only costs you money.  There is a line in the recent Batman movie called “The Dark Knight” where Alfred the Butler (in the personage of the great actor Michael Caine) says “Some men just want to see the world burn.”  The sad truth is that if you get enough gamers together in one place there will always be at least a few assholes out to enjoy themselves by ruining the game for other players.

Now it is at this juncture that some of my readers may point out things like “it’s just a game” and that is true.  But the players who live off the misery of others, especially those who find ways to circumvent game mechanics, have a much more far reaching affect than that. Long run, if enough players leave a game, because of it, those same players could find themselves with no one to prey on but themselves. Eve Online doesn’t have much in the way of competition now, but Star Trek Online is just around the corner (Yes I am fully aware that are some players don’t consider it direct competition).  

However, that is far from what I hope happens

What I hope happens is that the devs at CCP finally take a bit of a firm hand in things (something they are known for NOT doing) and resolve the situation.  PvP is great and I am a big PvP fan – .just so long as both parties participating in it agree to it – And agreeing to it DOESN’T happen simply by logging on to Eve Online.  However, as Michael points out in the comments to this article, if there is anyone who can “Square that particular Circle” CCP can – I just hope it doesn’t take too long.

 See you online,

Julie Whitefeather

18 Responses to Games You Wish You Could Love
  1. michael, St E
    November 3, 2009 | 10:26 pm

    The linked CCP Fear article on Massively isn’t really recent – it’s dated August 2008. During that period, CCP substantially reduced the time it takes Concord to spawn in highsec, and be (iirc) more immediately effective when they do so.

    CCP didn’t go through with the rumoured insurance nerf changes. Which wouldn’t help with these cases – as you say the participants are doing this for giggles, not profit.

    “The problem is, you should at least be safe in high sector space. ”

    CCP would disagree with you. They have repeated stated that they don’t want players to feel 100% secure in any part of EVE, that there should be no completely safe space.

    “There should be some part of the game where you can pve without being killed by players who live off the misery of others.”

    They support the ability of pilots to destroy ships in highsec for economic gain (aka “Don’t move 100M isk of goods in an untanked industrial hauler through highsec on autopilot”) . It’s not at all obvious to me how they could allow pilots to “suicidegank with a good reason” but not “suicidegank for the hell of it.”

    “PvP is great and I am a big PvP fan – just so long as both parties participating in it agree to it – And agreeing to it DOESN’T happen simply by logging on to Eve Online.”

    As you have said, EVE’s pvp isn’t consensual. Players who understand the gameworld can mitigate risk, but rarely avoid it entirely. Players who believe there is no risk involved in being active in highsec are mistaken, and are not playing the game they thought they were subscribed to.

    As to what CCP would do if they could see orchestrated suicide-ganking-for-lols having a sufficiently negative impact on player retention to worry them… well I’d be fascinated to learn. Evidence suggests that, if anyone can square that circle, they can.

  2. Hirvox
    November 3, 2009 | 11:30 pm

    Actually.. suicide ganking works because the attackers use cheap, insurable ships. A fully fitted destroyer costs 1-2 million, with the insurance covering about 1M of it. A Hulk costs around 100 million, and the fittings can raise that price to 130-500 million. If just one of those expensive modules survives the explosion, the suicide ganker makes a profit. However, it’s entirely possible to fit the Hulk in such a way that it can withstand attacks by smaller ships long enough for CONCORD to do their job. But usually that involves taking off some of the modules that increase your mining yield. So it’s a trade-off between risk and reward. Of course, not all people realize that they’re making such a choice.

    And speaking of choices.. Eve does have consensual PvP, it even has a button that you press to enable it. It’s called the Undock button. ;-)

  3. Sr. Julie
    November 4, 2009 | 7:37 am

    @ Michael: Thanks for keeping me honest. In an effort to include everything that the Ancient Gaming Noob had cited I missed the date at the top of the page…mic culpa. I will make the correction to out post. I do understand the factor about “not feeling completely safe anywhere” – after all that is what adds part of the excitement to it. However as you (Hirvox) suggest the “consent to pvp button” is the undock button, you may be correct. As a hulk pilot (at least until a week or so ago) there should be come way to close the enormous gap between tech 1 and tech 2. The idea of “loosing it all” (something which recently kept my Hulk docked for weeks) is a bit harsh. There needs to be some middle ground.

    Does this mean Eve Online isn’t for me? Perhaps. As I said on our last show, I may not be woman enough to handle the game. But, as the title to the article suggests, it is a game “I wish I could love”.

    Thanks both for the input and especially the correction.

    Julie

  4. syncaine
    November 4, 2009 | 9:23 am

    Many aspects of EVE would be radically different if High Sec was hardcoded to be 100% safe, so while the occasional uninformed (or lazy) miner might lose a Hulk, the overall game balance benefit is far to high to change that.

    CCP has made suicide ganking more difficult, which was their intent. If you play smart today, you can stop almost ALL suicide ganks against you, and the gankers don’t go after smart targets anyway. Why do that when there are plenty of other, easier targets? Keep yourself out of the ‘easy target’ pool, and High Sec might as well be 100% safe.

  5. Sr. Julie
    November 4, 2009 | 11:29 am

    @Syncaine: As a long time Eve Online player both in High Sec and 0.0, both industrial and pvp I understand but differ from your viewpoint. I am not predicting “doom” for Eve or some silly nonsense like that, but in order to sustain growth in the long run it seems as if one or two things should happen: either find some provision made to keep industrialists in high sec space 100% safe should they wish to stay in high sec space or close the enormous gap in insurance between tech 1 and tech 2.

    Thanks for the comments, they are greatly appreciated. Even if I don’t agree I enjoy reading them and discussing them all.

    Julie

  6. michael, St E
    November 4, 2009 | 8:47 pm

    @Hirvox: what you describe is certainly why suicide ganking can be profitable. Hardening a miner’s fit, dropping perfect yields, so the ship has a decent amount of effective hit points, can make a ganking a hulk (say) economically unviable. Not fitting anything above Tech 2 gear to one also helps that.

    I think the risks that Julie is focused on are particular brought about by the implications of the occasional spates of “suiganking for lols.” There’s no (or very little) economic benefit to the recent hulkageddon, or the repeated Jihadswarm outings in the past. They’re doing it for fun, for the joy of seeing carebears shed tears in local. Scanning a pilot in a hardened exhumer might very well make them more likely to try to take out that ship; who knows! :)

    One interesting point is that the performance of the Tech 1 mining barges isn’t enormously behind that of the Tech 2 exhumers. A hulk pilot with Exhumers V (don’t laugh, I have three of them, I was in an odd mood…) will get 15% better yield than if the same set of mining lasers were mounted to a Coveto, the top-tier mining barge. What the Hulk (iirc) also has is the CPU to stick a pair of Tech 2 Mining Laser Upgrades in the two low slots, increasing the yield further – an extra 9%, assume a Covetor can only fit one. I’m not near EFT, so can’t check.

    So, the benefit of the hulk is, say, a ballpark 25% extra yield, and a double-sized cargohold to reduce ore micromanagement.

    A Covetor currently costs 16M. A Hulk costs 97M.

    (As an aside, when I started playing the annual rolling graph of market history included the collapse of Hulk prices after the introduction of Invention. So the ~120M for my first Hulk really did seem like peanuts compared to the 500M-1B they had cost the year before…)

    Assuming a Covetor in highsec can pull in 10M an hour (number from thin air, I really should know), a Hulk will be pulling in 12.5M. On those numbers, I think it would take 32 hours of mining for the Hulk to make back its additional cost.

    Or to put it another way, if a Hulk pilot gets ganked less often than once every 32 hours of mining, he’s probably ahead.

    Say a mining pilot spends 10 hours a week mining – one five hour op on a weekend, an hour a night during the week. A Covetor pilot might make 100M a week from that. The Hulk pilot might make 125M. Is the extra 25M a week worth worrying about being blown up by some lunatics out to make the world burn?

    A hulk pilot can make more money than a pilot of a regular mining barge, but they do so by risking additional capital.

    Which is another of EVE’s game design axes. More reward, more risk. Even in highsec. :)

    This is a not dissimilar situation to mission-running pilots who take Tier 3 Battleships into Level 4s. Every now and again, the aggro goes wrong, and there’s an expensive pop. Insurance helps, but much less so on a Tier 3 (Abaddon, etc) battleship than Tier 1 (Armageddon, Dominix, Raven). They take that risk because, we might assume, they can run the mission faster and make more ISK/hour with a larger capital investment.

    Sound familiar? :)

    The difference, of course, is that the mission-runner’s personal actions and errors cause the risk . (That and the force-of-nature that is drone aggro). The mission-runner feels in control of their destiny, or at worse it’s because of something impersonal, like the weather.

    I guess it is harder for a hulk pilot to pass having been ganked – or the anticipation and fear of future gankings – by a gang of gibbering goons off as impersonal space-weather. Some human beings just took a personal interest in raining on your day. How much more upsetting can you get?

    Harder, but really not very much different. Exhumer pilots can invest in sensible ship setup and mine in regions that are slightly off-the-beaten path. They can set standings, and watch local for known hostile gangs, stay at their console, and avoid going AFK regularly, watch grid for warp-ins, dock up immediately if anything looks suspicious. These are all actions a player can do to manage their risk. They’re just much more passive and less immediate actions than those of a mission-runner.

    Then if the space-weather blowns in a Goonsquall then, well, it has to rain on everyone eventually.

    Sorry, rambling. Julie, does any of that make sense? :)

  7. Sr. Julie
    November 5, 2009 | 3:53 pm

    A nice theory but here is where it falls apart:

    “Assuming a Covetor in highsec can pull in 10M an hour (number from thin air, I really should know)” 10 million an hour? Mining Veldspar? Not in any market in high sec space I have ever seen – in fact not even close. You are also forgetting about the many, many sectors of high space that have fleets of mining bots go through them like giant locusts…unless you hit the high sec asteroid fields on the right day, in most high(er) sec areas forget it.

    You are correct about one thing…what sparked the article are those individuals who go out there and suicide gank just for the “jollies” of it. My problem is with non-consensual pvp. I do understand the entire idea of risk vs. reward and the excitement that it provides. However, at least for my liking, the risks are now running way too high. This is exacerbated by CCP’s “business as usual/hands off” attitude to any way players can find to circumvent game mechanics.

    We discussed this a bit with Keen from Keen and Graevs gaming blog on show number 47. It is one thing for a game to be a challenge, so that achievements mean something. But constantly having ships blown out from under you that “insurance” doesn’t even come close to covering anything but a fraction of the cost?

    That’s just tedious.

    And after having the second Raven (that I made I might add) blown out from under me I had just about had it. I wish I could still love Eve Online – the risks versus reward ratio is just too steep for this ex-pod pilot.

    Thanks for the comment…and not I don’t mind the “rambling” – it was an interesting read.

    Julie

  8. michael, St E
    November 5, 2009 | 8:00 pm

    julie,

    Over 6,000 botting accounts were banned as part of Holy Rage back in July. The number of accounts banned as part of UR was up to 18,000 at the time of Fanfest.

    At the same time, CCP substantially increased the respawn rate of Veldspar in highsec – Dr EyoG made this public for the first time during his economics lecture at Fanfest 09. That’s really what caused those “Wow, where did all these huge veld roids come from?” forum threads that turned up around that time. I suspect, though don’t know, that veld now respawns daily.

    It’s midnight GMT here, and 4 of the 10 asteroid fields in still have big juicy veld in them. Next door 4 of the 7 belts are still big veld fields. Similar story in the next-but-one system. Systems below 0.8 sec rating seem most populated.

    When in doubt, show working…

    EFT tells me an unboosted Tech2 fitted Covetor would clear 762K units of veld an hour. That’s 2.28k units of trit (3 trit per unit veld at perfect refine), roughly 6.1M isk (at current Amarr EFA low sell of 2.7). With a maxed-out mindlink/ganglink Orca in fleet, that peak yield increases by 55% to roughly 9.5M. Substantially lower than the months of 3-4 ISK/trit over summer. Alas! :)

    Even if the number is lower (as it inevitably will be, these being peak yields) that just emphasises the cost of the Hulk, and increases the large number of hours necessary to make a return on that capital, compared to the relatively insurable Covetor.

    The risk to capital of flying a Hulk comes with only a relatively modest proportional benefit to revenue. A max-yield hulk should pull in 25% more ISK/hour (15% for Exhumers V, a Covetor can’t fit a second MLU II). 25% more ore for an uninsurable Tech 2 100M ship?

    So, if the spaceways feel too dangerous, take the Covetor out instead, and your income wouldn’t suffer enormously for it.

    How did you come to lose the Ravens? Are you at war? Does your corp not have a replacement policy for fleet ops? If they’re too expensive for you to lose, why not fly something else?

    -michael

  9. Hirvox
    November 5, 2009 | 11:25 pm

    You are also forgetting about the many, many sectors of high space that have fleets of mining bots go through them like giant locusts…unless you hit the high sec asteroid fields on the right day, in most high(er) sec areas forget it.
    But wouldn’t you then welcome the Hulkageddon to get rid of the unfair competition?-) Also, one must note that the perpetrators of said act don’t really want to destroy your ship, they want to destroy any ship. You don’t have to outrun the proverbial lion, you just have to be a harder target than the rest. Use a fit that can take a few blows, stay aligned and run at the first sign of trouble. The predators will move on and pick on the next guy who was slower than you.

    But constantly having ships blown out from under you that “insurance” doesn’t even come close to covering anything but a fraction of the cost?
    If you’re not just using hyperbole here, you might want to double-check your own response to threats. In my entire mining career (which includes both highsec and 0.0), I’ve lost exactly two Hulks. One due to my own stupidity (wasn’t really paying attention to my shields) and once due to being ambushed by a Vagabond. Both were in 0.0, and I had done quite a bit of highsec mining before that.

  10. Sr. Julie
    November 6, 2009 | 11:58 am

    @ Michael St.E. I can’t tell you when exactly over the last few months I switched to “training mode). I can tell you that it was when a newer member of a corp I was in at the time went against strict corp policy and responded to a can flipper. Yes, the can flipper paid for the can flipping but he was also a member of a particularly large pvp corp. Result: the first war dec against the corp. ever. I don’t doubt your reasoning behind flying a covetor for safety…what I can tell you is that when I was actively mining veldspar in Amarr space, even with maxed out mining skills, I was never making more than one million isk an hour. Couple that with the inability to cope with more than one mind number hour of mining at a time (which is why I wrote the article “Zen and the art of mining” (or something to that effect) for Virgin Worlds.

    I have lost three battleships in my time: One to a corp war and two to mission running.

    @ Hirvox: Yes the problem is that those who suicide gank for the jollies of it are not discriminate about who they blast out of space. I did indeed take the route of fortifying my hulk a bit with shield rigs and using scout drones. As far as losing ships is concerned only three battleships lost…but lesser ships like drakes…then the number goes WAY up.

    @ Michael St. E and Hirvox: As I said, Eve Online is a game I wish I could love. It has always been a love/hate relationship with me. I loved the danger of 0.0 space but the death penalty, whether in high sec or low sec, is just too extreme. My perfect solution would be to modify insurance to allow for the insurance of the value of a ship (including tech 2 ships) not just for a portion of the value.

    Also of note is that there are space games coming out that I feel will be rivals to Eve Online. Two that come to mind are Star Trek Online and Jumpgate Evolution (which I truly do hope comes out). Also, while I do love what the devs at ccp do, the whole “walking in space stations” idea has pretty much turned in to vaporware – and while they are busy “thinking” about it Cryptic studios is busy DOING it.

    Thanks both for the input – I love our little conversations and I check the comments throughout the day.

  11. michael, St E
    November 6, 2009 | 10:33 pm

    Julie,

    Thanks for the on-going conversation!

    “What I can tell you is that when I was actively mining veldspar in Amarr space, even with maxed out mining skills, I was never making more than one million isk an hour.”

    Erm… gosh. Suddenly things make more sense. That number is very low.

    Here’s are some reference points for comparison. A ultra-basic ice-harvesting retriever (just two Ice Harvester Is, Ice Harvesting trained only to Level 1), would mine 12 icicles per hour to a jetcan. Each refined icicle would be worth 115k-135k at current Jita isotope prices, for unrefined goods the high buy order (for clear icicles) in Amarr’s core Domain region is current 99k. That solitary retriever would pull in a peak of 1.25M ISK an hour.

    Max out a Mackinaw (which specialises in ice harvesting, it’s substantially better at it than the Hulk) and it will pull in 49 icicles per hour. Roughly 4.9 M ISK/hour.

    Stack the bonuses from a maxed-out Orca on top of that, and its ~66 icicles/hour, 6.6M/hour from selling to buy orders, 7.6M/hour from perfect refining. And all the pilot has to do is sit in an ice belt, twiddlng his thumbs, dragging to a can every 3-4 minutes, with an indy alt or buddy hauling at suitable intervals. (Or dock the Orca occasionally).

    Mining ore is a less AFK activity than ice harvesting (‘roids pop regularly, icicles practically never do). The benefit to an ore miner for that increased activity is that it is designed to be more rewarding.

    This does not seem to have been happening in your case. The risk/reward balance for mining looks to have been tilted very steeply against you. I cannot know what caused it in your situation, but you have my respect for managing to soldier on as long as you did. :)

    (I mined several billion ISK of hisec ice over summer – product of an insane work schedule leaving very little brain power to do anything else with my gang of accounts, so I’m familiar with ice harvester cycle times on a near-cellular level…)

    I think 100% insurance is a non-starter. Insurance payment of ship market values would turn into an ISK duping machine. And even if it could be exploit-proofed, insurance is already a substantial ISK faucet. At 100% for all ship hulls there might be very nasty inflation.

    Taking the ship-death-penalty away is an issue of substantially greater scope than your understandable desire to avoid being victimised by hisec comedy-gankers. It would change the economics of the game, probably beyond recognition.

    Why was “fly a smaller ship” not a viable response to the pvp risk you encountered in EVE? If drakes were still too expensive, why not fly cruisers, or smaller?

    Incidentally, those drakes would cost substantially less to replace since the introduction of medium and small rigs (they use only 1/5 and 1/25 of the components of the old, now “large”, rigs, respectively).

    “Also, while I do love what the devs at ccp do, the whole “walking in space stations” idea has pretty much turned in to vaporware – and while they are busy “thinking” about it Cryptic studios is busy DOING it.”

    Having sat at the keyboard of a WiS demo machine last year, I’m very glad they had a rethink or two. There wasn’t enough point to the vertical slice we were shown, fun bar minigames and “exotic” dancers notwithstanding. The new direction for WiS hinted at by the Incarna Fanfest trailer makes me think the time was well-spent.

    And DUST514, well, that’s very definitely not vapourware. CCP Shanghai have been very busy. ;)

    Take the point, though. It will be interesting to see the reception for STO, JGE and Black Prophecy and how they affect EVE.

  12. Sr. Julie
    November 7, 2009 | 6:13 pm

    I do love our little conversations about gaming (seriously) thanks for them right back. As for ice mining, the corps I belong to over the years always seem to have them covered.

    As to death penalties, whether it is through insurance or what have you if the death penalties where a bit less harsh I might still be playing.

    As to walking in stations – I must say the whole “you are your spacehip” thing tends to get a bit old for me. Ever now and then I would like to get out of the pod full of goo and stretch my legs.

    And yes, I am incredibly interested in seeing how the space games coming out turn out, as well as how the communities interact with one another (or overlap one another for that matter).

    Once again, thanks for the well thought out responses and the time you took to share your thoughts with us all.

    Julie

  13. michael, St E
    November 8, 2009 | 10:07 am

    “As for ice mining, the corps I belong to over the years always seem to have them covered.”

    I quoted those ice mining figures to put 1M/hour from an Exhumer-class ship in context. Hope I didn’t offended. You were playing in hardcore mode! ;)

    If you’d been getting more ISK for that effort do you think you could have endured the death penalty more easily?

    WiS could make the game substantially more accessible to potential players who find the lack of articulated appendages disturbing. I’ve never been particularly put off by it, but I can only see it enriching the game. :)

  14. Sr. Julie
    November 9, 2009 | 2:51 pm

    If there was a way to substantially mitigate the death penalty, even if it were being able to recoup the losses at a much higher rate, I would probably still be playing the game. Note I say “probably”. The reason for this is that no matter how much money astroid mining earns it is still incredibly boring – to mix a metaphor or two, “it’s like trying to watch paint grow”…at least the grass grows. Even running missions gets boring after awhile.

    Walking in stations alone wouldn’t bring me back to the game, but it would go a long way toward doing so. As it is, when you mentioned the word “accessible” you have a key point, and perhaps the subject for another article this week.

    The famous “learning curve” of Eve Online is so steep that it would take a professional climbers and a team of shirpa guides a week to reach the summit. Now CCP obviously knows their market…whether that market is a matter of retaining players or continuously drawing in new players as old leave I can’t say. Still the “accessibilty” of the game seems to need a lot of improvement.

    Thanks for the comment.

    Julie

  15. Letrange
    November 10, 2009 | 3:11 pm

    I think that in this case it’s a case of a lot of people try, and a few stick. Those that stick however REALLY like EVE. Witness the retention of old pilots in EVE.

  16. Helicity Boson
    December 27, 2009 | 4:40 am

    Very classy, calling people that organize suicide ganks “imbeciles”.

    Who is the imbecile here? The people playing outlaws that will go above and beyond the law for any sort of financial gain, or the AFK miner that is not even near his ship when he is attacked?

    I understand your bias, but I would point out that EVE is marketed as a dark and dangerous place, furthermore, it’s incredibly easy -not- to get ganked while mining.

    I organize hulkageddon, but I ALSO have a hulk pilot myself. Simply by being AT my computer when I mine, and observing the local channel and being ready to turn on my tank and/or warp out I have eluded two suicide ganks myself.

    We are agitating against players that believe they should make large amounts of ingame money without actually being at their desk and playing the damned game. “But mining is so boring!” Well, that’s CCP’s fault, not ours.

    We have destroyed hulks fitted with incredibly expensive faction tanks that would have easily weathered our attack had they been present at the keyboard; and indeed during the first hulkageddon several -active- players handily avoided death at the gankers’ hands.

    As far as I can tell, your understandable bias has coloured your words, but it is a mistake to call people names for an activity they pursue within the allowed game mechanics, if that bothers you so much, then it’s just not the game for you. YOUR opinions are meaningless to what the people running the game allow/disallow.

    as CCP put it: HTFU, this is now hello kitty online, this is the dark dog-eat-dog world of EVE, this is why we love it, if you can’ t take that sort of heat, then stay out of the kitchen.

  17. Sr. Julie
    December 27, 2009 | 8:41 am

    Here we go gang…time for Julie to sharpen her ruler.

    @ Helicity Boson: You are quite correct in that I should not have called “people” who organized the ganks of miners “imbeciles”. I probably should not have inferred you are in imbecile either.

    After all, it’s not your fault that it took you this long to respond – we respect the fact that someone with your obvious Neaderthal-like intellect took this long to develop the ability to read. We congratulate you on developing the ability to read and taking a moment to surface to reality long enough to respond nearly two months after your bout of living off the misery of others in a feeble attempt to boost your own sagging ego.

    “We have destroyed hulks fitted with incredibly expensive faction tanks…”

    Why does this sound suspiciously like Hitler marching in to Poland beaming with pride at the good he has done for the world. What good do you feel you have done the world in getting together a bunch of thugs whose totaled IQ wouldn’t exceed a box of hammers so that they can work off their anger at having to shovel their moms sidewalk and actually having to come up out of the basement when their mom calls time for dinner?

    You live in some pathetic fantasy world where you feel the universe rotates around you and you are somehow teaching players a “lesson” when all you are doing is trying to make up for the fact you have an inferiority complex the size of a third world nation.

    Finding a way to circumvent game mechanics (for that is all that you have done here) to ruin somebody else’s participation doesn’t do anything other than point how feeble your intellect is, and how Neanderthal-like is your “we be teaching them a lesson boys…get yer ropes, yer hound dogs, and your white hoods…we is gonna have us a hanging” mentality.

    Thank you for providing us with the opportunity to personally tell you what a pathetic hunk of anthropomorphic swamp gunk your actions portray you as. Let’s hope you are a much better person in real life – in game you are a waste of skin.

    Got anything else to say? I don’t hide behind pseudonyms. Say what you want spell the name right. That’s…

    JULIE WHITEFEATHER

  18. Unconcerned Miner
    December 27, 2009 | 2:13 pm

    [webmaster's comment: Here is some advice from a Hulk pilot that I have decided to let have the last word on the subject. There is no better way incurr the vitriol of the masses then to say something about their favorite game. As Julie has said before, "Hell hath no fury like a gamer scorned".]

    Like many of you here, I am a hulk pilot. Like many of you here I fly a hulk with an “incredibly expensive” (relative term) faction/deadspace tank.

    Unlike most of you, I understand that PvP is at the core of the eve online experience. By undocking you are giving your tacit consent for acts of PvP to occur. Either be ready and prepared to defend yourselves or don’t undock, the choice is yours. Purely by the act of always being aligned to something, being aware of my surroundings and being able to fit a tank that runs permanently, I have survived many attempted suicide ganks, it really isn’t that hard.

    If you want to mine, you have to accept the risks of being in an area that everyone can see on their overview. If you want a purely passive income then play the market, you can do that without even undocking.

    In short, your safety while in space is YOUR responsibility, not CCP’s.